Thanks for the link, Litbrit!
Filed under 01_shakespeares_sister
Since my satellite system doesn’t offer MSNBC at a rate I’m willing to pay, I’ll be looking forward to an online clip of tonight’s special comment.
He could have earned all three spots – worse worser and worst. Compare him to Beelzebub himself, it’s still a toss-up. But then again, I was comparing him to Caligula, Nero, and Pol Pot MONTHS ago.
BTW, I LOVE this commenting interface, with the preview appearing below as you type. Very slick.
Love the photo of him! Priceless!
Ah, the Tocatta and Fugue in Dm. The music made me happy.
My pleasure, darling. Hey, why don’t we Shakers all plan to raise a collective glass to KO tonight when he does his Special Comment–and Petulant, perhaps you might be able to YouTube it for those of us who don’t have cable or are busy dealing with The Young Ones around that time? It shouldn’t be missed. I don’t think I’ve EVER heard of a newsman calling for a sitting president and vice to resign…please correct me if I’m wrong. 😉
Sigh, W. has been the worst person in the world for awhile now.
Last I checked, youtube doesn’t let you save, and I can only watch this at work at the moment, where I have no speakers. Any other tips? Does the MSNBC site allow direct download? (Looked, couldn’t find.) I know I can read the transcript, but it just isn’t the same, you know?
If you Google, you can find some utilities that allow you to save YouTube clips to disk.
Here’s one I found (I just grabbed it by description, have no ulterior motives in recommending, etc.)
I have a deep and abiding love for Keith. This just further cements it.
I have a deep and abiding love for Keith.
I wish I could say the same, but, unfortunately, I don’t even watch Countdown anymore, because I got so tired of getting hit upside the head with stuff like this out of nowhere.
It happened far too often for my comfort.
Even now, I have mixed feelings about giving him exposure for the good stuff he has to say when he’s talked about women in ways I despise. Another reason for me to loathe the pathetic dearth of media figures willing to say the stuff he does about the administration; it requires me to rely on people who force me to ignore stuff I don’t want to.
I’m not sure that I care for the way he sugar-coated that. 😀
Melissa, I’m completely with you on the inappropriate comments and general misogeny that sprout up on Countdown from time to time. But I watch it anyway, not exactly giving him a pass (I email when I’m really offended, as I hope others do), but knowing many good-hearted, well-intentioned but frequently sexist men in the same late-40’s-and-older group as I do, I realize he’s a product of the same patriarchal schooling and good-old-boy ethos who still manages to depart from the party line most of the time.
So for now, I’ll accept that he’s on a learning curve, too.
As an aside, KO has stood up for women’s causes many, many times and vigorously condemned rape apologists (I’ll try to remember which show that was–his words took my breath away).
No argument from me that Keith isn’t perfect on feminist issues, but insisting on perfect, flawless champions has gotten us to where he literally the last honest anchor in the business. By all means, email/write/call him out when he errs; that’s what you suggested in your article on Hilton. But to stop watching, and to urge others to do so, will only result in him being replaced by someone like Beck or O’Reilly. I can’t think that that would be an improvement.
“.good-hearted, well-intentioned but frequently sexist men in the same late-40’s-and-older group..”
Guilty …please remember, there were few, if any, women in our early learning years to point the way …and virtually no men ….(I credit my Dad for the meager education I do have) …SO … an occasional slap to get our attention is ever warrant …learning curve is steep, precipitous …. J
No argument from me that Keith isn’t perfect on feminist issues, but insisting on perfect, flawless champions has gotten us to where he literally the last honest anchor in the business.
Really? It’s “insisting on perfect, flawless champions” that has turned our media into a pile of shit? It’s not the fact that newsrooms never used to be profit centers and now are? It’s got nothing to do with the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine? It’s really just down to uppity bitchez and fags and blacks who have the temerity to call out members of the media when they’re insulting to us? Come on. That couldn’t be more wrong.
But to stop watching, and to urge others to do so
I didn’t urge anyone to stop watching him. I was talking about my personal feelings–and I linked specifically to a piece where I encouraged people not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I can just imagine Charles Manson dansing in his cell singing “I’m not the worse I’m not the worse”
You lead by example, not by exhortations. Many people respect your opinion on these matters, and will put more credence in your actions than your words.
As for the rest, you know full well I don’t think or speak in those terms nor tolerate those who do. And yes, the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine and merging of news and entertainment played their roles in making the media both conservative and focused on trivia. But my point was correct. The Right will faithfully support their champions no matter who criticizes them, and even if they don’t toe the party line. That produces the ratings and sales that make right wing punditry a growth industry. The Left (ALL the left, not just feminists) will savage its own rather than unite against the more dangerous opponent. 80 years ago, Will Rogers said, “I belong to no organized political party; I’m a Democrat,” and it’s even more true today. So when Phil Donahue gets sunk with low ratings and Beck and Grace get their own shows, how is this not worsening the public discourse?
Many people respect your opinion on these matters, and will put more credence in your actions than your words.
Noted–but that’s still not the same as urging people to do something, is it? I don’t think you actually believe that my saying I don’t watch a show is the same as “urging” people not to watch it.
The Left (ALL the left, not just feminists) will savage its own rather than unite against the more dangerous opponent.
First, I don’t think calling out overtly sexist behavior from a member of the media is equivalent to savaging my own. Someone who calls out the administration for its crap is “my own”; someone who undermines the basic principles of women’s equality is not. Now maybe you don’t see how that puts me in a tough place, because, maybe to you, the administration is “obviously” a bigger deal than women’s equality. But women’s equality isn’t just “another issue” for me; it’s my life. It’s about my very value as a human being in our culture. That’s a goddamned important issue to me. And, in some ways, when sexism is promulgated by someone seen to be a progressive, it’s more important to me than someone who’s ideas will be routinely dismissed by progressive men, like Bill O’Reilly.
Secondly, I don’t think the two (“savage its own rather than unite against the more dangerous opponent”) are mutually exclusive ideas. But if they are, if I can’t call Olbermann out on his sexism without fracturing a unity against “a more dangerous opponent,” whose fault is that, really? Mine? Why is it that it’s the fault of those who don’t want to deal with sexism, homophobia, racism, etc. among our ranks that are accused of fracturing the unity and not those who can’t stop being sexist, homophobic, and racist? Why not those who can’t hear our legitimate criticisms and adjust their behavior accordingly? The reason the Left has this problem isn’t because of my standards; it’s because there are still people on the Left who are bigoted jerks.
Why is it that it’s the fault of those who don’t want to deal with sexism, homophobia, racism, etc. among our ranks that are accused of fracturing the unity and not those who can’t stop being sexist, homophobic, and racist? Why not those who can’t hear our legitimate criticisms and adjust their behavior accordingly? The reason the Left has this problem isn’t because of my standards; it’s because there are still people on the Left who are bigoted jerks.
Amen and huzzah. I’ve never seen KO’s sexist stuff before (i’m not a regular watcher), but I’d probably stop watching if I did see it. As good as KO is, there’s simply no excuse for that, especially coming from someone that’s considered one of the biggest voices of the Left. I don’t expect KO to be flawless, but I do expect him to refrain from being sexist. And I don’t see how holding people on “our side” to higher standards is “savaging our own.” Melissa isn’t exactly writing scathing putdowns of KO on a daily basis, and I seriously doubt that Melissa saying that she doesn’t watch Countdown is going to cause a mass drop in his viewership.
KO’s great, but he doesn’t get a free pass.
As good as KO is, there’s simply no excuse for that, especially coming from someone that’s considered one of the biggest voices of the Left.
Interestingly, KO doesn’t consider himself part of “the Left.” And the thing I’ve noticed about dudez who seem to be natural allies of “the Left” by virtue of their opinions of the administration, yet refuse to identify with “the Left,” is that they maintain that distance because they can’t part with their fag jokes and give up talking shit about women.
All the applause for taking on Bush; none of the responsibility to be fair to girls and gays.
See: Maher, Bill.
Oh, does he consider himself an “independent?” That’s so hip these days. 😉
Did I say not to call out anyone on stuff? I believe I said, “By all means, email/write/call him out when he errs; that’s what you suggested in your article on Hilton.” Such messages will, I think, be more effective from a viewer than from a non-viewer.
Further, I didn’t assign fault for the fact that the Left in this country shatters like crystal. I’ll even stipulate that it IS the fault of the anti-war person who says something misogynistic and the fault of the anti-administration guy who says something anti-gay. It doesn’t matter, because you conceded my point: the Left in this country cannot unite behind any program of action.
Finally, I do understand why women’s equality is the most important issue for you. In my analysis, though, if this country becomes a theocracy or other form of dictatorship, women (and men) will be in a worse position than they are today. So I hope you will forgive me for concluding that preventing this country from becoming a dictatorship is, itself, championing everyone’s cause, including women. To my thinking, that isn’t putting equality on any ‘back burner,’ it’s focusing on existential questions so that we’ll still be around to work on the rest.
I do understand why women’s equality is the most important issue for you
That’s not the point I was making. It’s not necessarily “the most important issue” to me. It’s the most intimate issue for me.
I hope you will forgive me for concluding that preventing this country from becoming a dictatorship is, itself, championing everyone’s cause, including women
That does indeed champion everyone’s cause in the sense that we won’t lose our democracy. I know it’s meant to be axiomatic that preventing America from becoming a dictatorship is somehow simultaneously a fight for women’s rights, but that’s not necessarily true. Women’s equality is wound up in national politics, certainly, but it is also largely independent of them, too. It’s simply a misunderstanding of what women experience to suggest that protecting our democracy is the same as championing a feminist cause. Forward movement for women happens even in dictatorships, and can be stalled even in democracies. You must remember that we’re talking about a constitutional democracy whose constitution does not even yet recognize me as your equal.
I have many good and important and personal reasons for not wanting to lose America to a dictatorship. I also have many good and important and personal reasons for fighting for my equality. Some of those good and important and personal reasons overlap. Some of them don’t.
They’re not one and the same fight, nor are they mutually exclusive. I can’t stack them in order of importance. They are both important to me, and sometimes they are in conflict.
It will never be as simple for me as “just focus on this for now and then we can get to your issues.” It just doesn’t work that way. I can’t wrench my identity as an American from my identity as a woman, nor can I pretend they are one and the same.
I can’t stop myself from commenting here.
I’ve heard these arguments before — that we must “look past” certain language or exclusionary behavior for the sake of unity.
Problem is — for me, it’s simply a matter of cognitive dissonance.
I believe that it’s impossible to create true unity by leaving certain people out.
If KO wouldn’t be caught dead doling out a racial slur, however subtle, then he shouldn’t dole out sexist slurs, either, however subtle.
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Wow – Can I just mention that comments sections like this one exemplify why I am addicted to Shakesville ? It could have turned into an cho chamber of huzzahs for KO, and instead it’s led to yet another engaging read! 🙂
Thanks for posting the you tube link Liss, I’ve been beyond the reach of cable (or internets) the past few days taking holiday with the in-laws and trying not to have my head explode over the many BillO talking points that were spouted in the guise of legitimate opinions.
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