Lost Open Thread

“Dude, that was like a Jedi moment.”

I love Hurley. But nevermind that. The two-hour season finale was last night, and there is a lot to talk about. Tart and I can’t possibly cover it all in our devilishly clever though, admittedly, vaguely psychotic fangrrlish emails…so it’s time for an open thread. Don’t head south if you haven’t seen in yet and don’t want spoilers, because spoilers are the name of the game below the fold…

The Best Jack Moment of All Time: “Because I love you.” It was so perfect and lovely, I couldn’t even mock him with any “What—no sanctimonious lecture?” snark.

The Return of Walt: I knew it! I was so sure Walt would return in this episode that I avoided reading the opening credits lest I ruin the surprise. The surprise I knew was coming. Wev—leave me alone.

The Flash Forward: I was fairly certain it was a flash forward…but my confidence was undermined when Jack was all, “See how drunk my daddy is!” But it was a flash forward! Did the island resurrect Christian?! Does that mean Tart can blow him?

And Speaking of Blowing Doodz: Um, Jack looks superhot with a crazybeard. Although…why would he stay clean-shaven on the not-deserted island in spite of the fact that he probably has to shave with a petrified boar turd, but then grow a very hot beard back in civilization? Tres flummoxity. Nonetheless, glad he did. Now if he could just get a little dirty like Sawyer, we might have something to talk about, other than his self-righteous hectoring that makes me yell at him to shut up all the time.

Kate is Still Teh Awesomest: That is all.

Charlie is Dead: Come on. Charlie can’t be dead. Not after he just got cool again. And, as an aside, can’t Claire be a little more worth dying for, even though Charlie totally can’t be dead? She doesn’t do anything except whine “Chahleeeee” and “the behbeeeee” until my eyes involuntarily weep. Charlie needs to not be dead, and to return to a Claire who is way more interesting.

Okay. Now you.

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58 Comments

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58 responses to “Lost Open Thread

  1. DBK

    I posted on it. Yeah, gotta love the Hurley.

    Charlie’s death was totally stupid and pointless, though I think he lives anyway. He shut a BULKHEAD, for crying out loud. Which means he could have stepped outside the room and shut it from the other side. Or let the water pressure hold it closed. Either way, that made no sense.

    How could Locke kill Naomi so calmly but not Jack? Why is Richard Alpert no older than the day he met 12 year old Ben? How did Sawyer become such a killing machine when he was no way a killer type before that? What’s the deal with Mikhail? What is he, Jason from the Friday the 13th series or something?

    So Jackdaddy isn’t dead. I have been predicting that for a while.

  2. Tart

    Did they expect us not to notice that Walt has totally hit puberty?

  3. Tart

    Why is Richard Alpert no older than the day he met 12 year old Ben?

    YES.

  4. Did they expect us not to notice that Walt has totally hit puberty?

    The Lost producers: “What–you bitchez will buy a traveling plume of smoke that creaks like a machine, but you’re gonna get testy over the fact that we can’t halt a real child’s hormones?!”

    Us: “Yes.”

  5. DBK

    Yes! Walt aging! Some Losties age and some don’t. And, in the case of Ben, some of them age badly (such a cute little boy he was). And where is Ben’s mommy who showed up in the Ben flashback episode and then disappeared for good? I figured she was coming back in this one. Instead we got the return of Walt, whose role now seems to be playing Hamlet’s father. Come to think of it, Hamlet was also full of parental issues.

    Hugo rulez!

  6. Teddi

    And who died in the flash forward that got Jack so wildly psychotic? Did i miss that while moting back and forth on the commercials to see the craptacular that is formally named American Idol. I want to know who died. Oh and who was Kate talking about when she said “he’ll find out i’m gone” when she was talking to Jack at the airport? So many questions, so many brain cells exploding.

  7. Bethynyc

    Did anyone else notice the exchange between Sawyer and Juliet? (I’m paraphrasing)

    Sawyer: You sleep with Jack yet?
    Juliet: No. Did you?
    Saywer: (doesn’t answer)

    HEEE!!!

    And I *adored* Hurley in this! He wins!

  8. Tart

    Teddi-
    I think it was an Other who died. Maybe Ben.

    mmm, speculation.

  9. I haven’t watched Lost since mid-way through season 1 – it’s funny, because I really don’t mind it when it takes time for a story to unfold, but I just got bored while I was watching it.

    But I did catch the tail end of the two hour finale last night, and I have to second DBK in that Charlie’s death was totally stupid and pointless and didn’t make any narrative sense whatsoever.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday night, the most awesome show that no one watched, Veronica Mars, had its season and *series* finale (sob). If you have never watched VM, please, take my advice, do yourself a favor and buy or rent season 1.

  10. Greg

    “Charlie’s death was totally stupid and pointless, though I think he lives anyway. He shut a BULKHEAD, for crying out loud. Which means he could have stepped outside the room and shut it from the other side. Or let the water pressure hold it closed. Either way, that made no sense.”

    If he’d done this the moon pool would have risen up and filled the whole hatch with water. Locking himself in the hatch was the only way to save Desmond. I thought Charlie’s death scene was awesome. Sad, but very well done. I especially liked how badass he was dealing with the Ladies of the Looking Glass having accepted his fate.

    As for the flash forward, I was a little annoyed with it at first, when I thought it was a flashback, because I’m sick of Jack, and it seemed like a fairly pointless rehashing of what we already knew, “Jack has daddy issues, Jack was messed up over his divorce, blah, blah, blah.” But when they revealed that it was a flash forward it took on a whole new resonance. It seemed like Jack found as much meaning and purpose in his life on the island as Locke did, but he didn’t realize it until it was too late. It’s like so many other stories about people who’ve gone through traumatic experiences, but can’t deal with it, and stay stuck in that moment for the rest of their lives. It was heartbreaking to rewatch with the knowledge that it was the future, not the past.

    On a different point, I think the person in the casket was Locke. Sawyer would have been a good candidate, but Kate mentioned getting back to “him”, and that’s probably the him she was talking about. Locke seems to be important enough to Jack that his death would move him like that, but yet not have any friends or family, having alienated all the Lostaways and not having anyone at home to begin with.

  11. Greg

    We should have had one of these every week, all season, btw. Next year maybe? It’s going to be a long eight months.

  12. DBK

    Teddi,

    They never said who died in the flash forward, but I saw a posting on a blog where they’d Tivo’d the epi and stop-actioned on the newspaper article and posted that it looked like it might have been Locke who’d died because the first name ended with “nathon”, like in “Jonathon”, and it said he’d been born in New York. Not sure where Locke was born or if they ever even told us that.

    As for Kate, she did say she had to get back to her husband. They never said who her husband was. Couldn’t be Sawyer in my opinion. He has serious commitment issues and she’s a total co-dependent type.

  13. DBK

    “If he’d done this the moon pool would have risen up and filled the whole hatch with water.”

    Please explain how that would have happened if Charlie sealed the bulkhead from outside the room instead of from inside the room? I’m not grokking you.

  14. Thanks for posting this! It reminds me that I wanted to complain very loudly about the truly crappy music on this episode. Even Albert Glasser, the guy who Tom Servo declared “the man who holds you down and pummels you with music,” would say “Whoa, dude, back off on the heavy strings!”

  15. DBK

    But didn’t you love Jack listening to Nirvana’s Scentless Apprentice? I thought that was great.

  16. Charlie’s death was totally stupid and pointless and didn’t make any narrative sense whatsoever

    It did make narrative sense, even (and maybe especially if) he could have escaped but didn’t. He’s been so lost (no pun intended) for so long and, once he “got okay” with dying, he clearly came to view a valiant death as somehow giving him the purpose he otherwise lacked.

    Which is stupid. But Charlie makes lots of stupid decisions in pursuit of a person he thinks he should be instead of who he is. He’s one of the most realistic characters in that way, frustratingly.

  17. 1.) And who died in the flash forward that got Jack so wildly psychotic?

    I thought Locke, because of the line that followed. Jack said something like “We weren’t supposed to leave.”

    2.) Charlie died because he was stupid. (Or, what DBK said.)

    3.) Is is wrong that I was wildly ecstatic when Sawyer killed “nice guy”? (I was appalled at myself after I cheered and laughed loudly, if that counts for anything.)

  18. Thealogian

    Flashback/Flashforward: there were two references to Christian/Jack’s Dad being alive. 1. Get my father upstairs and if I’m drunker than he is, you can fire me and 2. the prescription. Could there have actually been a mix of flashbacks and flashforwards? Could he be all Desmond esque and re-experiencing pre-island life? Could his desire to get back refer to having left most of the castaways and promising to find them, but the island is somehow cloaked? Hmm…

  19. DBK

    Thealogian,

    Good questions, because Jack’s divorce seems fresh in the flash-ahead but it seemed before to have taken place before the plane crash. I think Minkowski knows (he said cryptically for the sake of the real hardcore Lost fans).

  20. And who died in the flash forward that got Jack so wildly psychotic?

    Walt. That’s my guess, anyway, based on the fact that the casket looked short (I actually said: “Is that a kid’s casket?”) and that the show was (in one of its admittedly infrequent less subtle moments) suggesting that the funeral home was in a predominantly black neighborhood. (And the thing about Lost is that it’s not unsubtle often, but when it is–ouch.)

    Also, I agree with all those who’ve said Locke because of Jack’s reaction to his death, although it appears that Locke and Walt are about to form some sort of alliance, possibly to usurp Ben’s leadership of The Others. There’s no guarantee they wouldn’t remain at odds with Jack et. al., since Locke no wanna leave–which would mean Jack could have similarly ambiguous feelings about Walt’s death in future, too.

  21. Arkades

    Um, Jack looks superhot with a crazybeard.

    *Hell, yeah, he does!* Delicious. Yum.

    Although…why would he stay clean-shaven on the not-deserted island in spite of the fact that he probably has to shave with a petrified boar turd, but then grow a very hot beard back in civilization? Tres flummoxity. Nonetheless, glad he did.

    It’s standard Hollywood visual shorthand for ‘downward spiral’. As a beard-wearer-by-choice as well as an ardent admirer of men with facial hair in general, this particular Hollywood trope annoys the ^&$% out of me in deeply personal ways. But it’s a common tactic, and very easy to recognize it when it’s in play.

    In addition to merely making him look older (and making us accept more easily that it’s a flash-forward, once it becomes obvious that it’s not a flashback after all), the crazybeard is meant to imply that Jack no longer cares about his appearance and has ‘let himself go’. Never mind the fact that he looks better *with* said beard than without.

    A similar ‘beard equals long dark night of the soul’ instance could be seen recently in the character of Eric on Jericho. His marriage collapses, he winds up blaming himself for the death of his ex… and, to show just how far gone from his normal self he is during this bleak phase of his life, he grows a beard (that also happens to make him look twelve times better than he did before, but wev).

    A *far* less common variant is when a character’s bearded appearance represents a more spiritual turn… instead of just ‘letting go’ in general, the character has ‘let go’ in the sense of giving himself over to destiny. (See also: Desmond)

    Come on. Charlie can’t be dead. Not after he just got cool again.

    My thoughts exactly. After a completely thankless Season 2, the writers finally threw some good stuff Dom’s way toward the end of Season 3, which actually made me remember how much I liked Charlie originally.

    And, as an aside, can’t Claire be a little more worth dying for, even though Charlie totally can’t be dead? She doesn’t do anything except whine “Chahleeeee” and “the behbeeeee” until my eyes involuntarily weep.

    Yup. She’s currently the most underutilized of the ‘main’ group of Losties (having inherited that role as soon as the writes got tired of having Michael show up every 2 or 3 episodes to scream ‘Waaaaaaaaalt!’ a few times, then disappear again). Think they’ll ever get around to probing her half-siblinghood with Jack?

  22. sari

    I think the plot twist is GENIUS. As my best friend Stacie said “It’s no longer Gilligan’s Island.” They’ve taken away the obvious series finale: the cast gets off the island. It seems they’ve gotten off the island and now we’re going to find out about those former castaways who need to get back to the island to make *something* right.

    Who sent the ship? Not Penny. Maybe Penny’s dad? He seems to have a stake in the island somehow.

    Why are the Dharma people still making food drops? Do they know Ben and eyeliner guy (what is that character’s name??) killed 40 Dharmaites?

    I think some people (like eyeliner guy) don’t age on the island or age slowly. The same way that some people die (Boone, Eco, Charlie – yes I think he’s actually dead) and others are hard to kill off (Mikhail, Locke, Naomi)

    Flashback/forword: I think Jack said that thing about checking if his dad was drunk because he was HIGH. I think it’s a flashforward. His dad is dead and Jack is f’cked up.

    I think either Locke or Ben is in the casket.

    I think Naomi lied about the plane wreckage being found (or if she didn’t, then things are MUCH more complicated).

    In the flashforward – why isn’t Kate in jail? Did she take on the identity of a dead passenger (ala Kate Winslet in Titanic)? But how is that possible – they know what she looks like. Or – did they all return as celebrities and the other castaways testify to her heroics and she was tried quickly and given a short sentence?

    I thought Jack’s mustache looked super fake.

    And maybe Charlie’s death will make sense in the larger story. It seems that people on the island have certain destinies, related to the island. Charlie’s destiny was to help get people off the island. I typically hate storylines with destinies (don’t be telling me I have no choice in my life) but the island is all wacky – so it could work. Also – they had to kill off a bunch of Others so as to uncomplicate the upcoming season: too many people to keep track of.

  23. sari

    I think the plot twist is GENIUS. As my best friend Stacie said “It’s no longer Gilligan’s Island.” They’ve taken away the obvious series finale: the cast gets off the island. It seems they’ve gotten off the island and now we’re going to find out about those former castaways who need to get back to the island to make *something* right.

    Who sent the ship? Not Penny. Maybe Penny’s dad? He seems to have a stake in the island somehow.

    Why are the Dharma people still making food drops? Do they know Ben and eyeliner guy (what is that character’s name??) killed 40 Dharmaites?

    I think some people (like eyeliner guy) don’t age on the island or age slowly. The same way that some people die (Boone, Eco, Charlie – yes I think he’s actually dead) and others are hard to kill off (Mikhail, Locke, Naomi)

    Flashback/forword: I think Jack said that thing about checking if his dad was drunk because he was HIGH. I think it’s a flashforward. His dad is dead and Jack is f’cked up.

    I think either Locke or Ben is in the casket.

    I think Naomi lied about the plane wreckage being found (or if she didn’t, then things are MUCH more complicated).

    In the flashforward – why isn’t Kate in jail? Did she take on the identity of a dead passenger (ala Kate Winslet in Titanic)? But how is that possible – they know what she looks like. Or – did they all return as celebrities and the other castaways testify to her heroics and she was tried quickly and given a short sentence?

    I thought Jack’s mustache looked super fake.

    And maybe Charlie’s death will make sense in the larger story. It seems that people on the island have certain destinies, related to the island. Charlie’s destiny was to help get people off the island. I typically hate storylines with destinies (don’t be telling me I have no choice in my life) but the island is all wacky – so it could work. Also – they had to kill off a bunch of Others so as to uncomplicate the upcoming season: too many people to keep track of.

  24. Teddi

    3.) Is is wrong that I was wildly ecstatic when Sawyer killed “nice guy”? (I was appalled at myself after I cheered and laughed loudly, if that counts for anything.)

    So did I! I thought maybe I was losing my mind. But I was so happy when he blasted him. He wasn’t a “nice guy”. He was a creepy dude who stole children and acted like a nice guy. Euw!

  25. It’s standard Hollywood visual shorthand for ‘downward spiral’.

    Oh, I got that. (Although I very much enjoyed your Beard Treatise and, as a beard-lover, agree 100%!) I was just speaking as if Jack were, ya know, real. Because I’m crazy, lol.

    It seems they’ve gotten off the island and now we’re going to find out about those former castaways who need to get back to the island to make something right.

    Mr. Shakes thinks that next season, all the “off-island” frames will be flash forwards. Which would be very cool.

  26. Arkades

    Please explain how that would have happened if Charlie sealed the bulkhead from outside the room instead of from inside the room? I’m not grokking you.

    I’m unfamiliar with how such doors work, but perhaps it could only be sealed/unsealed from the inside? It looked like Desmond was trying pretty hard to get inside, yet he couldn’t open it from his side. Perhaps it couldn’t be closed from that side, either? In which case, sealing it up from within was the only way.

    Did they expect us not to notice that Walt has totally hit puberty?

    Yeah, seems at odds with how long Walt supposedly has been gone. Though, if the island can supercharge fertility, who is to say it can’t work other bouts of hormonal magic, too?

    Oh, and I forgot to add in my earlier comment…. yay, Hurley!!! Who would have thought that the Magic Bus would become so pivotal instead of a throwaway feel-good errand? The emblem on the front may have said ‘Dharma’ (of course), but using the bus to smack into the Others was totally karma!

  27. Tart

    I would so totally end up pregnant on that island, magic fertility forces or not.

  28. Tart

    The emblem on the front may have said ‘Dharma’ (of course), but using the bus to smack into the Others was totally karma!

    /rimshot!

  29. The emblem on the front may have said ‘Dharma’ (of course), but using the bus to smack into the Others was totally karma!

    LOL!

    Btw, speaking of the bus, Roger the Work Man (aka Ben’s dad) is totally Uncle Rico. And I’m going to tell Jacob he’s been eating all of his steaks.

    (Jon Gries: Highly underrated character actor, who was also the awesome Lazlo Hollyfeld in Real Genius.)

  30. Jay in Oregon

    My instant pet theory about the ship:

    Who was sending the supplies for the hatches? We assume that it’s the Dharma Initiative (given their logo is all over the stuff) but then we find out that Ben scragged them all.

    So maybe the Others pretend to be the Dharmites so that they keep getting the supply drops, but once the Purple Sky Thing happens and they lose communication with the island, the Initiative is trying to find out what happened?

    OK, the flash-forward threw me. His ranting about his dad was a nice red herring (is Christian really still alive, or is Jack just that far gone in the future?).

    Actually, I’m glad that they’re going to take this series off of the island, at least in part. When I heard they were going to extend the show for THREE MORE SEASONS, I was pissed, because I assumed that meant we wouldn’t get a “they get off the island! Yay!” (or “they all die! Boo!”) moment for three more years.

    But this makes it interesting. As people have said, will season 4 be all after they get off of the island? Will it follow what happens after they make contact with the ship, but with flash-forwards now in addition to flashbacks?

    They’ve had HUGE hints at time-travel so far in the series; maybe the Walt we see isn’t a present-day Walt, but a future Walt somehow sent back to get Locke’s ass up and moving? Hey, producers, I just saved your ass! 😀

    To put it mildly, I’m hooked for at least one more season.

  31. 1) HUGO RULEZ!!! (Fat pride!)

    2) My feeling is that Ben (a short little fucker) is in the casket – he lied to everybody, both “our side” and the Others, in one way or the other, so why would anyone show up at his funeral? However,…

    3) I think the whole “flash forward” is a possible future and not necessarily what is really gonna happen. An alternate universe, if you will. Mainly I say that because, I don’t care how high you are, how could you not – on multiple occasions (pharmacy, hospital) not remember that your father is not only dead, but that you went to Oz to get his body?!?

    4) Charlie didn’t try to save himself because he fully believed that it was his time to die. Desmond had saved him multiple times throughout the season – and he knew it was eventually gonna happen – so why not make it “an heroic sacrifice”? (I do hope, however, that Charlie’s not really dead – Des could have swam out through the moon pool with SCUBA gear and gotten him air. But then again, that would, in Des’ mind, just be delaying the inevitable yet again.)

    5) Somebody needs to slap some sense into Jack. I’m sorry, but I’m so over his whiny ass! And the same with Kate! (my apologies to all you that love both of the above)

    6) Oh, yeah, did I mention that HUGO RULEZ?!?! “Tell me I can’t help, you fuckers!” He should have slugged Sawyer after saving his ass!

  32. Jay in Oregon

    Walt. That’s my guess, anyway, based on the fact that the casket looked short (I actually said: “Is that a kid’s casket?”) and that the show was (in one of its admittedly infrequent less subtle moments) suggesting that the funeral home was in a predominantly black neighborhood.

    Hmm. Not Walt, but Michael. He would be someone that Kate would have no interest in seeing, given how he gave them the shaft to get him and Walt off of the island.

    But if Naomi was telling the truth (and there’s no reason to assume she was) and they did “find” the plane, then what happened when Michael and Walt show up?

  33. Jay in Oregon

    Speaking of this season of Lost, this made me laugh my ass off:

    http://ack-attack.livejournal.com/370261.html

  34. t

    Kate is now with Jack’s dad. Betcha.

  35. Jamie

    I agree that it was either Locke or Ben in the coffin. It couldn’t have been Walt (even though the coffin was so small — i noticed that too) because someone would have attended had it been. I can’t see no one going to the viewing of someone under 20. Maybe I’m wrong — that coffin was small.

    And who was on the boat if it wasn’t Penny? Does it have something to do with the Dharma group and that wacky rich guy they were focused on last summer? WTF???

    And why did ben have them shoot the sand instead of sayid et al? He doesn’t have a problem with killing — was there something else up his sleeve?

    And count me among the people shouting at the screen when Charlie locked himself in. He had plenty of time to get out and shut the door — and even if the whole place had filled up with water, if they swam down, they could swim back up. Plus, there was freakin’ SCUBA gear!!!!

    And what was up with Jack saying “call my father down here” in the flash forward????

  36. Annie

    Charlie’s death also makes narrative sense when you consider his, and Desmond’s, conviction that changing anything from D’s visions will change the outcome. Charlie had chosen to die in order to get Claire and Aaron off the island, and believed that any ending other than drowning in the Looking Glass would jeopardize that future.

  37. I think the whole “flash forward” is a possible future and not necessarily what is really gonna happen. An alternate universe, if you will.

    Ah, I posited that last night, too. I told Mr. Shakes I thought there might be a Sliding Doors thing happening.

    Then I kind of decided against that for awhile, but when Kate showed up looking all ethereal, I gave the possibility a little more credence again.

  38. Jamie

    Oh, and Hugo totally rules!!!!!

  39. Anonymous

    (Although I very much enjoyed your Beard Treatise and, as a beard-lover, agree 100%!)

    My pleasure!

  40. Sorry kids – Charlie is definitely dead. The producers announced it on the evening news, after the show. They wanted to remind viewers that anybody could go at any time, and get the show back to the edgy, unpredictable series that it used to be.

    I think Charlie got a great final episode, and touching death.

    I’m so in love with the show again!

  41. Tart

    EVERYONE: Follow that link Jay put up.

    Funniest.
    Shit.
    Evah.

  42. Jay in Oregon

    Tart:

    Glad you enjoyed 🙂

    I laughed my ass off at “EXPECTO PATRONUM”, myself.

  43. DBK

    I’m unfamiliar with how such doors work, but perhaps it could only be sealed/unsealed from the inside? It looked like Desmond was trying pretty hard to get inside, yet he couldn’t open it from his side. Perhaps it couldn’t be closed from that side, either? In which case, sealing it up from within was the only way.”

    Well I’m no submariner, but I’ve worked with a couple and I play one in my tub, so allow me to please ‘splain as best I can. There is a mechanism to unseal the door on interior side as well as the exterior side. That big wheel thingy on the “dry” side that Des was standing in front of looking into the room where Charlie was drowning? That’s used to unseal the locks on the bulkhead. See, a bulkhead is designed to protect the main portion of the vessel when there’s a breach. It is not exactly sensible to make bulkheads so that the only way to close them and seal them is by staying in the room with the breach and drowning because not everyone is as heroic as Dominic Monaghan (who was also willing to face a Nazgul to protect Eowyn, that little ballsy cuss) and will sacrifice his or her life to save everyone else. So they make them so you can leave the room where the breach occurred and close and lock the bulkhead behind you. That’s also why the bulkhead door swings inward into the room rather than outward. In the event of a breach, the water pressure, if the door swung out into the main compartment rather than in to the room, would be too great to allow you to close the bulkhead and then everyone would drown and nobody would get a moon cookie after dinner. I love those moon cookies, also known as “black and white” cookies. I haven’t had one in ages.

    Where was I? Oh yeah.

    Also, if the door is set up so that it swings inwards into the room, you can actually just pull it shut behind you as you leave the room and the water pressure will do a pretty good job of sealing the bulkhead without even locking it down, though locking it down is recommended.

    That’s a serious flaw in the logic of that scene as I see it, so I am still waiting to hear how Charlie leaving the room and sealing the bulkhead behind him would have caused the entire station to flood. I can understand the argument that Charlie was following the logic that to not have things happen exactly as in Des’s premonition changes the result, but the logic that Charlie sealing the bulkhead from the dry side would flood the dry side still doesn’t make sense to me. And now I have a yen for a moon cookie.

  44. Kym

    That link is fantastic.

  45. DBK

    Okay, I admit I am Lost obsessed now, but in the White Rabbit episode, Charlie told Jack he couldn’t swim. Now he was the North England Junior Swimming and Moon Cookie Eating Champion. Bet they never even try to clear that up. I’m guessing they decided to just write it like this and hope everyone forgot about Charlie not being able to swim way back in 2004.

  46. sari

    I have been trolling around online and have come across a few people supporting the idea of timeslips. I’m getting on board with this theory (which I am repeating/stealing – I didn’t come up with this)

    The island can do things with alternate timelines. Looky here: Desmond’s weird timeslips and (if Naomi isn’t lying) in the “real” world they found the plane wreckage and bodies.

    If the flashforward is a “new” present/future that could explain:
    1. Why Kate isn’t in jail. In this new timeline she’s not a fugitive, so she’s happy and has healthy, glowing skin and doesn’t want to go back to the island

    2. Why Jack mentions his drunken father AND asked the pharmacist to call his dad’s office: his dad is alive in this timeline

    3. Why Jack is miserable: his new timeline sucks. He wants to go back and set things “right.”

  47. Miller

    M – I didn’t realize you are a LOST junkie. Though, thinking about it, I’m not surprised.

    I love love love this show and haven’t had anyone to natter on with since my other M went traveling. 😦

    Ack, I can’t read this thread yet because I didn’t see last night’s show yet. But, I might have to call you this weekend to talk about it.

  48. Annie

    DBK: If we can accept that Charlie was deliberately trying to die, in order to not mess up the foreseen Claire & Aaron rescue, then I don’t think we need the logic that Charlie was keeping the rest of the station from flooding. To me, after all of Desmond’s fretting about letting Charlie die in order to get Penny to the island, it seems obvious that these guys both believe you must behave consistently with the “vision” in order to get the desired outcome, and it makes sense that Charlie had made the decision to do that before he went down to the Looking Glass.

    Also, there were some clues in Greatest Hits that Charlie was lying about being the North England swimming champ in order to convince Jack to let him be the one to go. Jack is kind of bossy.

  49. Now he was the North England Junior Swimming and Moon Cookie Eating Champion.

    I thought it was pretty obvious that was a blatant lie he was telling so that he’d be allowed to go on the mission.

  50. TroyG

    I don’t have much to add here as this is pretty good stuff. I think I can however answer the question about Richard Alpert not aging. If you recall one of the things the the Hanso Foundation was involved in was a life extension project. I theorize that Richard is one of those test subjects. Another thing that adds to this theory is in one of the last few epi’s Ben tells Richard that it is his birthday and adds “you do remember birthdays, don’t you?” All things considered, I felt it was a great finale. I just don’t quite see how they are going to get another 3 seasons out of it.

  51. it seems obvious that these guys both believe you must behave consistently with the “vision” in order to get the desired outcome

    Didn’t seem to be the case the last time Desmond saved Charlie (arrow to the neck). They still found the parachuter.

    (Late to the party – sorry!)

  52. re: the “vision” Didn’t seem to be the case the last time Desmond saved Charlie (arrow to the neck). They still found the parachuter.

    While that is true, the parachuter wasn’t Penny, which Des believed. Mayhap the paranormal qualities (and, come on, there have to be some) of the island changed the future so that instead of Penny rescuing them they got Naomi and her “crew”.

  53. I just don’t quite see how they are going to get another 3 seasons out of it.

    The seasons are going to be much shorter; it was a compromise worked out with the powers-that-be at ABC, who want to milk the cash cow til she’s bone-dry.

    And honest, the plot does tend to drag on this show. A little tightening of the pace really won’t hurt.

  54. Greg

    He probably could have sealed the door from the outside, but he would have had to get the door closed before the window breached to prevent the moon pool from rising up, so time was a factor. Also the whole “the vision must play out just like Des saw otherwise things change” thing.

    On the issues of the flashforwards, I’m psyched about the idea, but only for the older characters that have been around since the beginning. I still want to see more backstory on Desmond, Rousseau, Alex & Karl, and especially Ben. I hope they add Alex as a regular next year. Is Tania Raymonde old enough that I’m not a pervert for thinking she’s hot?

  55. Thealogian

    Has anyone talked about the death-sentence pregnancies? Why doesn’t abortion seem to be an option? I mean, they have an ultra-sound machine and other surgical equipment. There’s a lot of “missing mommies” and “bad daddies” themes going on, but in all practicality, other than the women who are the “test subjects” of the neo-dharmites, why couldn’t Sun have an abortion? Or Kate, if she’s knocked up, etc?

  56. Annie

    Also, I don’t think it matters whether it’s true that Des/Charlie have to act a certain way in order to get the outcome Des sees. What’s important is that they believe that they must.

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